[racket] try-racket alternative

[Floyd Arguello]

I found that my daughters had a lot of questions when they went through the tutorial at http://try-racket.org/
 - what’s a function? What’s a binding? Lambda? Lexical scope? 


So, I thought I’d create an alternative to try-racket - for kids ages 12 and up, give or take.


With that in mind, I forked https://github.com/jarcane/try-racket
, applied a new design, and added:


* the bootstrap js framework
* the ability to clear and reset the console (doesn’t clear pictures yet)
* multi-line entries in the console - auto indents at 2 spaces (needs more work)


I also removed “context” from the error messages - to keep the errors short and sweet.


It’s very much a work in progress, but you can see it here: http://trycode.io/



As for the content, one idea is to rewrite the tutorial for a younger, less experienced crowd, and use the “info” box in the lower left to provide additional information, terminology, context, etc



Another idea is to write a simple, text-based game; though it lacks the instant gratification of a picture appearing in the console.


Any ideas/feedback?


Anyone want to pitch in? :)


https://github.com/arguello/trycode.io




Thanks,
Floyd

[Sam Tobin-Hochstadt]

This is really nicely done! I hope your daughters are enjoying Racket
as well. :)

Sam

On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 4:11 PM, Floyd Arguello

Post by Floyd Arguello
I found that my daughters had a lot of questions when they went through the
tutorial at http://try-racket.org/ - what’s a function? What’s a binding?
Lambda? Lexical scope?
So, I thought I’d create an alternative to try-racket - for kids ages 12 and
up, give or take.
With that in mind, I forked https://github.com/jarcane/try-racket, applied a
* the bootstrap js framework
* the ability to clear and reset the console (doesn’t clear pictures yet)
* multi-line entries in the console - auto indents at 2 spaces (needs more work)
I also removed “context” from the error messages - to keep the errors short
and sweet.
http://trycode.io/
As for the content, one idea is to rewrite the tutorial for a younger, less
experienced crowd, and use the “info” box in the lower left to provide
additional information, terminology, context, etc…
Another idea is to write a simple, text-based game; though it lacks the
instant gratification of a picture appearing in the console.
Any ideas/feedback?
Anyone want to pitch in? :)
https://github.com/arguello/trycode.io
Thanks,
Floyd
____________________
http://lists.racket-lang.org/users

____________________
Racket Users list:
http://lists.racket-lang.org

[Floyd Arguello]

Thank you!


They are enjoying Racket - Realm of Racket is a phenomenal book.


Floyd

Post by Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
This is really nicely done! I hope your daughters are enjoying Racket
as well. :)
Sam
On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 4:11 PM, Floyd Arguello

Post by Floyd Arguello
I found that my daughters had a lot of questions when they went through the
tutorial at http://try-racket.org/ - what’s a function? What’s a binding?
Lambda? Lexical scope?
So, I thought I’d create an alternative to try-racket - for kids ages 12 and
up, give or take.
With that in mind, I forked https://github.com/jarcane/try-racket, applied a
* the bootstrap js framework
* the ability to clear and reset the console (doesn’t clear pictures yet)
* multi-line entries in the console - auto indents at 2 spaces (needs more work)
I also removed “context” from the error messages - to keep the errors short
and sweet.
http://trycode.io/
As for the content, one idea is to rewrite the tutorial for a younger, less
experienced crowd, and use the “info” box in the lower left to provide
additional information, terminology, context, etc

Another idea is to write a simple, text-based game; though it lacks the
instant gratification of a picture appearing in the console.
Any ideas/feedback?
Anyone want to pitch in? :)
https://github.com/arguello/trycode.io
Thanks,
Floyd
____________________
http://lists.racket-lang.org/users

[J Arcane]

Oh wow! This is quite lovely. Definitely an improvement so far, in my book.

I believe that the one included in try-racket is mostly based upon the
Quick Guide: http://docs.racket-lang.org/quick/ The examples are largely
similar, I think just a few things were tweaked or abbreviated.

The state of the web front-end is mostly unmodified because I simply didn't
have much in the way of web-design skills when I took on the project. I
treated the JS side in particular as little more than a black box. I've
picked up some JS/HTML since, but my skills as an admin or a web dev still
leave a lot to be desired.

Ultimately, my interest has always been in just seeing to it that there was
a high-quality online repl available for Racket somewhere, and at the time,
none was hosted, so I took up the repo because I needed to be able to
easily push changes to get it working.

This is all just a rambling lead up to say that I really like what you've
done with the thing, and to be perfectly honest would be quite happy to
hand over the domain.

Post by Floyd Arguello
Thank you!
They are enjoying Racket - Realm of Racket is a phenomenal book.
Floyd
This is really nicely done! I hope your daughters are enjoying Racket
as well. :)
Sam
On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 4:11 PM, Floyd Arguello
I found that my daughters had a lot of questions when they went through the
tutorial at http://try-racket.org/ - what’s a function? What’s a binding?
Lambda? Lexical scope?
So, I thought I’d create an alternative to try-racket - for kids ages 12 and
up, give or take.
With that in mind, I forked https://github.com/jarcane/try-racket, applied a
* the bootstrap js framework
* the ability to clear and reset the console (doesn’t clear pictures yet)
* multi-line entries in the console - auto indents at 2 spaces (needs more work)
I also removed “context” from the error messages - to keep the errors short
and sweet.
http://trycode.io/
As for the content, one idea is to rewrite the tutorial for a younger, less
experienced crowd, and use the “info” box in the lower left to provide
additional information, terminology, context, etc

Another idea is to write a simple, text-based game; though it lacks the
instant gratification of a picture appearing in the console.
Any ideas/feedback?
Anyone want to pitch in? :)
https://github.com/arguello/trycode.io
Thanks,
Floyd
____________________
http://lists.racket-lang.org/users
____________________
http://lists.racket-lang.org/users

[Matt Jadud]

Without comparing one to the other, I really like it.

What I'd like to do, personally, for the next time I run a PL course (where
I do a rapid run through the foundations of HtDP to introduce the language)
is be able to develop a series of tutorials that leverage a framework like
this. Coupled with some pre-recorded lecture content (or not), the
tutorials could be used for concept introduction and initial practice,
while DrR + unit tests could provide the framing for the second round of
exploration. (Yes, I know, writing checks are an important part of the
learning process, but sometimes I provide a few tests on a few problems to
get them started.)

Either way, very cool, and thanks for making it open. Very nice.

Cheers,
Matt

PS. I think this address is the one I'm subscribed to the list on... at
least, it appears to be... apologies to the list admins if I keep getting
it wrong...

Post by J Arcane
Oh wow! This is quite lovely. Definitely an improvement so far, in my book.
I believe that the one included in try-racket is mostly based upon the
Quick Guide: http://docs.racket-lang.org/quick/ The examples are largely
similar, I think just a few things were tweaked or abbreviated.
The state of the web front-end is mostly unmodified because I simply
didn't have much in the way of web-design skills when I took on the
project. I treated the JS side in particular as little more than a black
box. I've picked up some JS/HTML since, but my skills as an admin or a web
dev still leave a lot to be desired.
Ultimately, my interest has always been in just seeing to it that there
was a high-quality online repl available for Racket somewhere, and at the
time, none was hosted, so I took up the repo because I needed to be able to
easily push changes to get it working.
This is all just a rambling lead up to say that I really like what you've
done with the thing, and to be perfectly honest would be quite happy to
hand over the domain.

Post by Floyd Arguello
Thank you!
They are enjoying Racket - Realm of Racket is a phenomenal book.
Floyd
This is really nicely done! I hope your daughters are enjoying Racket
as well. :)
Sam
On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 4:11 PM, Floyd Arguello
I found that my daughters had a lot of questions when they went through the
tutorial at http://try-racket.org/ - what’s a function? What’s a binding?
Lambda? Lexical scope?
So, I thought I’d create an alternative to try-racket - for kids ages 12 and
up, give or take.
With that in mind, I forked https://github.com/jarcane/try-racket, applied a
* the bootstrap js framework
* the ability to clear and reset the console (doesn’t clear pictures yet)
* multi-line entries in the console - auto indents at 2 spaces (needs more work)
I also removed “context” from the error messages - to keep the errors short
and sweet.
http://trycode.io/
As for the content, one idea is to rewrite the tutorial for a younger, less
experienced crowd, and use the “info” box in the lower left to provide
additional information, terminology, context, etc

Another idea is to write a simple, text-based game; though it lacks the
instant gratification of a picture appearing in the console.
Any ideas/feedback?
Anyone want to pitch in? :)
https://github.com/arguello/trycode.io
Thanks,
Floyd
____________________
http://lists.racket-lang.org/users
____________________
http://lists.racket-lang.org/users

____________________
http://lists.racket-lang.org/users

[Floyd Arguello]

Thanks for the compliment!


I’ll publish a couple of blog posts later today, which detail how I use nginx to proxy the web server requests, and daemontools to manage it.


Best,
Floyd

Post by Matt Jadud
Without comparing one to the other, I really like it.
What I'd like to do, personally, for the next time I run a PL course (where I do a rapid run through the foundations of HtDP to introduce the language) is be able to develop a series of tutorials that leverage a framework like this. Coupled with some pre-recorded lecture content (or not), the tutorials could be used for concept introduction and initial practice, while DrR + unit tests could provide the framing for the second round of exploration. (Yes, I know, writing checks are an important part of the learning process, but sometimes I provide a few tests on a few problems to get them started.)
Either way, very cool, and thanks for making it open. Very nice.
Cheers,
Matt
PS. I think this address is the one I'm subscribed to the list on... at least, it appears to be... apologies to the list admins if I keep getting it wrong...

Post by J Arcane
Oh wow! This is quite lovely. Definitely an improvement so far, in my book.
I believe that the one included in try-racket is mostly based upon the Quick Guide: http://docs.racket-lang.org/quick/
The examples are largely similar, I think just a few things were tweaked or abbreviated.
The state of the web front-end is mostly unmodified because I simply didn't have much in the way of web-design skills when I took on the project. I treated the JS side in particular as little more than a black box. I've picked up some JS/HTML since, but my skills as an admin or a web dev still leave a lot to be desired. 
Ultimately, my interest has always been in just seeing to it that there was a high-quality online repl available for Racket somewhere, and at the time, none was hosted, so I took up the repo because I needed to be able to easily push changes to get it working.
This is all just a rambling lead up to say that I really like what you've done with the thing, and to be perfectly honest would be quite happy to hand over the domain. 

Post by Floyd Arguello
Thank you!
They are enjoying Racket - Realm of Racket is a phenomenal book.
Floyd

Post by Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
This is really nicely done! I hope your daughters are enjoying Racket
as well. :)
Sam
On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 4:11 PM, Floyd Arguello

Post by Floyd Arguello
I found that my daughters had a lot of questions when they went through the
tutorial at http://try-racket.org/
- what’s a function? What’s a binding?
Lambda? Lexical scope?
So, I thought I’d create an alternative to try-racket - for kids ages 12 and
up, give or take.
With that in mind, I forked https://github.com/jarcane/try-racket
, applied a
* the bootstrap js framework
* the ability to clear and reset the console (doesn’t clear pictures yet)
* multi-line entries in the console - auto indents at 2 spaces (needs more work)
I also removed “context” from the error messages - to keep the errors short
and sweet.
http://trycode.io/
As for the content, one idea is to rewrite the tutorial for a younger, less
experienced crowd, and use the “info” box in the lower left to provide
additional information, terminology, context, etc

Another idea is to write a simple, text-based game; though it lacks the
instant gratification of a picture appearing in the console.
Any ideas/feedback?
Anyone want to pitch in? :)
https://github.com/arguello/trycode.io
Thanks,
Floyd
____________________
http://lists.racket-lang.org/users

____________________
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/users

____________________
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/users

[Floyd Arguello]

Thanks! I mean for it to be an alternative for kids, and not a replacement for try-racket.org. The Quick Guide is an awesome tutorial for evaluating Racket, but my daughters struggled with it. How do you write something simple enough for people with no programming experience, without boring experienced programmers? My thought was to have two online REPLs.


I do plan to submit pull requests to your repo after testing the javascript changes/additions a bit more. I also made one change in main.rkt, so that a user can start the web server by specifying the path to main.rkt
 simpler for scripting.


We can also update the design for Try Racket, either using Try Code’s design, or maintaining consistency with racket-lang.org.


I can take over try-racket.org if you want, or I can submit PRs to your repo.


Cheers,
Floyd

Post by J Arcane
Oh wow! This is quite lovely. Definitely an improvement so far, in my book.
I believe that the one included in try-racket is mostly based upon the Quick Guide: http://docs.racket-lang.org/quick/
The examples are largely similar, I think just a few things were tweaked or abbreviated.
The state of the web front-end is mostly unmodified because I simply didn't have much in the way of web-design skills when I took on the project. I treated the JS side in particular as little more than a black box. I've picked up some JS/HTML since, but my skills as an admin or a web dev still leave a lot to be desired. 
Ultimately, my interest has always been in just seeing to it that there was a high-quality online repl available for Racket somewhere, and at the time, none was hosted, so I took up the repo because I needed to be able to easily push changes to get it working.
This is all just a rambling lead up to say that I really like what you've done with the thing, and to be perfectly honest would be quite happy to hand over the domain. 

Post by Floyd Arguello
Thank you!
They are enjoying Racket - Realm of Racket is a phenomenal book.
Floyd

Post by Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
This is really nicely done! I hope your daughters are enjoying Racket
as well. :)
Sam
On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 4:11 PM, Floyd Arguello

Post by Floyd Arguello
I found that my daughters had a lot of questions when they went through the
tutorial at http://try-racket.org/
- what’s a function? What’s a binding?
Lambda? Lexical scope?
So, I thought I’d create an alternative to try-racket - for kids ages 12 and
up, give or take.
With that in mind, I forked https://github.com/jarcane/try-racket
, applied a
* the bootstrap js framework
* the ability to clear and reset the console (doesn’t clear pictures yet)
* multi-line entries in the console - auto indents at 2 spaces (needs more work)
I also removed “context” from the error messages - to keep the errors short
and sweet.
http://trycode.io/
As for the content, one idea is to rewrite the tutorial for a younger, less
experienced crowd, and use the “info” box in the lower left to provide
additional information, terminology, context, etc

Another idea is to write a simple, text-based game; though it lacks the
instant gratification of a picture appearing in the console.
Any ideas/feedback?
Anyone want to pitch in? :)
https://github.com/arguello/trycode.io
Thanks,
Floyd
____________________
http://lists.racket-lang.org/users

____________________
  http://lists.racket-lang.org/users

[Greg Hendershott]

Wow. I like the design.

I like that the design is not similar to the circle in The Hudsucker
Proxy: "You know. For kids!"

Sidenote:

Lately my Twitter feed says people like Phil Hagelberg (aka
Technomancy) and John Carmack (makes some games?) are teaching their
kids how to code using Racket. Which is awesome. As are Realm of
Racket and Bootstrap.

A potential risk: People are dismissive: "Racket? Oh yeah. For kids."

Also, any design aimed at X year olds probably makes them cringe and
instead appeals to (- X 5) year olds. Where X < ~25. This probably
reverses for larger X. :)


I like both domain names and goals. I like how try-racket.org is
explicit about promoting Racket. I like how trycode.io is general and
presumes well of course it uses Racket.

If you two do join forces in terms of sharing a look and feel? Or even
share infrastucture (if not lesson content and domains)? I hope that the
look(s) and feel(s) remain in the same ballbark as trycode.io.

Also I'm trying to think of ways I could actually help (as opposed to
giving unsolicited advice like this).

TL;DR what both of you have done is awesome.

Post by Floyd Arguello
Thanks! I mean for it to be an alternative for kids, and not a replacement for try-racket.org. The Quick Guide is an awesome tutorial for evaluating Racket, but my daughters struggled with it. How do you write something simple enough for people with no programming experience, without boring experienced programmers? My thought was to have two online REPLs.
I do plan to submit pull requests to your repo after testing the javascript changes/additions a bit more. I also made one change in main.rkt, so that a user can start the web server by specifying the path to main.rkt… simpler for scripting.
We can also update the design for Try Racket, either using Try Code’s design, or maintaining consistency with racket-lang.org.
I can take over try-racket.org if you want, or I can submit PRs to your repo.
...

Post by J Arcane
Oh wow! This is quite lovely. Definitely an improvement so far, in my book.
...

Post by Floyd Arguello
So, I thought I’d create an alternative to try-racket - for kids ages 12 and
up, give or take.
With that in mind, I forkedhttps://github.com/jarcane/try-racket
....

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Racket Users list:
http://lists.racket-lang

[Mark]

Post by J Arcane
Ultimately, my interest has always been in just seeing to it that there
was a high-quality online repl available for Racket somewhere, and at the
time, none was hosted, so I took up the repo because I needed to be able to
easily push changes to get it working.

I'm not sure if you are familiar with http://www.wescheme.org/ but it
might be worth looking at as well. The source is here:
https://github.com/dyoo/WeScheme

On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 12:06 PM, Floyd Arguello

Post by J Arcane
Off the top of my head, would need to persist user sessions. Add a way

for users to save and access their code - so probably a database and user
accounts.

I believe WeScheme.org allows you to login using a Google account and save
your programs.

I think it is used a lot in the www.bootstrapworld.org
curriculum--especially in places where they can't install DrRacket on
computers very easily.

Mark

[Floyd Arguello]

That’s awesome; I wasn’t aware of WeScheme or Bootstrap World. I wish I knew about Bootstrap earlier - I would have tried to convince a teacher in my district to attend this week’s workshop. 


I like the idea of saving programs through a Google account, and adding an IDE shouldn’t be too difficult. I’ll see what I can come up with.


Floyd

wrote:> Ultimately, my interest has always been in just seeing to it that there was a high-quality online repl available for Racket somewhere, and at the time, none was hosted, so I took up the repo because I needed to be able to easily push changes to get it working.

 I'm not sure if you are familiar with http://www.wescheme.org/
but it might be worth looking at as well. The source is here: https://github.com/dyoo/WeScheme
On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 12:06 PM, Floyd Arguello

Off the top of my head, would need to persist user sessions. Add a way for users to save and access their code - so probably a database and user accounts.

I believe WeScheme.org allows you to login using a Google account and save your programs.
I think it is used a lot in the www.bootstrapworld.org
curriculum--especially in places where they can't install DrRacket on computers very easily.
Mark

[Neil Van Dyke]

Post by Floyd Arguello
I like the idea of saving programs through a Google account,

That might be fine for particular users of this particular app... but,
as a general comment, for people doing other Web-based apps, using "the
cloud" in this way is actually a really bad direction for privacy in
most cases.

(This is a serious and huge topic, which is mostly outside the scope of
Racket, and I doubt any of us want to get into the topic here by
building up from first principles. I just think that that kind of cloud
use shouldn't be mentioned in an impressionability-heavy venue like
this, without someone pointing out that it's not necessarily a good
general approach.)

If anyone just wants quick&dirty storage for a Web app (online or
offline), the easiest thing to consider first is
"http://mozilla.github.io/localForage/". You can look at the
implications from there, but it's one of the easiest and best starting
points for most Web app casual storage purposes at the moment.

Neil

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[Jukka Tuominen]

Since the topic is expanding further away from "try", I may also add that
even though native Linux, Liitin also has an html5 web interface. It
provides a personal cloud desktop and storage with Racket integration, and
you can also share Racket code easily.

See the web login page at https://liitin.org:8448/

br, jukka

Post by Neil Van Dyke

Post by Floyd Arguello
I like the idea of saving programs through a Google account,

That might be fine for particular users of this particular app... but,
as a general comment, for people doing other Web-based apps, using "the
cloud" in this way is actually a really bad direction for privacy in
most cases.
(This is a serious and huge topic, which is mostly outside the scope of
Racket, and I doubt any of us want to get into the topic here by
building up from first principles. I just think that that kind of cloud
use shouldn't be mentioned in an impressionability-heavy venue like
this, without someone pointing out that it's not necessarily a good
general approach.)
If anyone just wants quick&dirty storage for a Web app (online or
offline), the easiest thing to consider first is
"http://mozilla.github.io/localForage/". You can look at the
implications from there, but it's one of the easiest and best starting
points for most Web app casual storage purposes at the moment.
Neil
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http://lists.racket-lang.org/users

[John Clements]

Post by Floyd Arguello
I like the idea of saving programs through a Google account,

That might be fine for particular users of this particular app... but, as
a general comment, for people doing other Web-based apps, using "the cloud"
in this way is actually a really bad direction for privacy in most cases.

+1

(This is a serious and huge topic, which is mostly outside the scope of
Racket, and I doubt any of us want to get into the topic here by building
up from first principles. I just think that that kind of cloud use
shouldn't be mentioned in an impressionability-heavy venue like this,
without someone pointing out that it's not necessarily a good general
approach.)
If anyone just wants quick&dirty storage for a Web app (online or
offline), the easiest thing to consider first is "
http://mozilla.github.io/localForage/". You can look at the implications
from there, but it's one of the easiest and best starting points for most
Web app casual storage purposes at the moment.

Agreed. Also, for a really nice solution to the authentication problem (how
can I authenticate users without telling their providers?), you might want
to take a look at Mozilla Persona:

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Persona

John

Neil
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[Matthias Felleisen]

This is dang cool. How much of Realm can you get into this format? -- Matthias

I found that my daughters had a lot of questions when they went through the tutorial at http://try-racket.org/ - what’s a function? What’s a binding? Lambda? Lexical scope?
So, I thought I’d create an alternative to try-racket - for kids ages 12 and up, give or take.
* the bootstrap js framework
* the ability to clear and reset the console (doesn’t clear pictures yet)
* multi-line entries in the console - auto indents at 2 spaces (needs more work)
I also removed “context” from the error messages - to keep the errors short and sweet.
It’s very much a work in progress, but you can see it here: http://trycode.io/
As for the content, one idea is to rewrite the tutorial for a younger, less experienced crowd, and use the “info” box in the lower left to provide additional information, terminology, context, etc…
Another idea is to write a simple, text-based game; though it lacks the instant gratification of a picture appearing in the console.
Any ideas/feedback?
Anyone want to pitch in? :)
https://github.com/arguello/trycode.io
Thanks,
Floyd
____________________
http://lists.racket-lang.org/users

____________________
Racket Users list:
http://lists.racket-lang.org/users

[Floyd Arguello]

I’m not sure, but that would be awesome :)


Off the top of my head, would need to persist user sessions. Add a way for users to save and access their code - so probably a database and user accounts. I could add a save function to the REPL, but that would defeat the purpose of the REPL - so would need an editor to sit alongside the REPL.


I had an idea to create a MVC framework in Racket, was planning on calling it Ruckus, might be worthwhile to do it all at the same time. Unless one currently exists? I’m still a Racket noob :)


The text-based guessing game could probably go in this weekend, though.



Floyd

Post by Matthias Felleisen
This is dang cool. How much of Realm can you get into this format? -- Matthias

I found that my daughters had a lot of questions when they went through the tutorial at http://try-racket.org/ - what’s a function? What’s a binding? Lambda? Lexical scope? 
So, I thought I’d create an alternative to try-racket - for kids ages 12 and up, give or take.
* the bootstrap js framework
* the ability to clear and reset the console (doesn’t clear pictures yet)
* multi-line entries in the console - auto indents at 2 spaces (needs more work)
I also removed “context” from the error messages - to keep the errors short and sweet.
It’s very much a work in progress, but you can see it here: http://trycode.io/
As for the content, one idea is to rewrite the tutorial for a younger, less experienced crowd, and use the “info” box in the lower left to provide additional information, terminology, context, etc

Another idea is to write a simple, text-based game; though it lacks the instant gratification of a picture appearing in the console.
Any ideas/feedback?
Anyone want to pitch in? :)
https://github.com/arguello/trycode.io
Thanks,
Floyd
____________________
http://lists.racket-lang.org/users